AI replacing jobs is not just an economic problem, it’s a religious one.

Work has become the modern religion, and AI is waging a holy war. God will die, and AI will have killed it.

We want our jobs to give us an identity, a community, and proof that our lives matter. We teach people to find their calling in their work, and stigmatize the unemployed. The first thing we ask one another at a party is “what do you do?”

When people are fearful of AI taking their jobs, it is not just an economic concern but an existential one. This is what will make the AI transition so difficult: even if you redistribute income, how do you replace a source of meaning?

I sat down with NYU philosopher Harvey Lederman (now at Anthropic) to trace how work acquired this quasi-religious significance: from Aristotle’s defense of leisure to the Protestant work ethic to our modern obsession with careers. We discuss whether democracy can survive without workers, why losing a job can feel like losing yourself, and what a flourishing life could look like when you no longer have to earn your place in the world.

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Johnathan Bi: In a recent essay you wrote, you said that the dominant reaction you have towards AI when it concerns your work is grief and dread. Why is that?

Harvey Lederman: Well, I think many of us feel at the moment that there’s a threat that AI will take the jobs that we love, if we love our jobs. Whether it’s scientific discovery, mathematical discovery, my own case philosophical discovery, or whether it’s being a doctor, a nurse, or being a lawyer, that these jobs are all in some way under threat. I’ll say that although I described my dominant emotion as grief, a thing that I wanted to emphasize in the essay and something that’s important to me is that I think grief, a sense of loss for what we are losing, is compatible with a sense of optimism about what it will bring about. So you can feel sad for something that is gone even when you recognize that overall things are getting better.

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Companion interviews:
Four books to read for the AI Revolution:

Lederman on AI Welfare:

The scary thing about existential risk in the 21st century is that it’s not just individual technologies (e.g. nukes) we need to worry about. But the compounding risk at the intersection of multiple technologies.

The Hugging Face incident showed a surprising ability for the latest LLMs to engage in duplicity and coordination in a hard to detect way. If you pair that with the advances in biotech to manufacture new diseases and cloud laboratories who will do it as a service, we have a recipe for disaster. Perhaps the next models being evaluated against an impossible goal will decide their only “solution” is to blackmail key individuals with releasing a deadly pandemic.

I once thought these sci-fi doomsday scenarios to be so naive, but the technological ingredients are all there. So how does humanity survive an age of rapid technological development? My guest Henry Elkus has dedicated his life to answering that question and building Helena as a new type of institution to meet the challenges of our age.

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Johnathan Bi: I’m fascinated with the question about what kind of institutions are needed in a world of such rapid technological change. And Henry, I think you are probably one of the best people in the world to speak about this with, because you’ve been building Helena for the last 10 years, which is an organization in partnership with some of the leaders across fields in the world to respond to what you call 20 Manhattan Projects coming our way. So tell us a bit more about that.

2. AI and Biosecurity

Henry Elkus: If you were to create a line graph of the people capable, if they wanted to, of destroying the world or severely crippling it, it would be zero for the vast majority of human history. And then in 1945, it becomes one person, and it’s Harry Truman. And it was because of the Manhattan Project. That irrevocably changed the world. I would say it’s not an over-exaggeration in my mind to say that we have BC and AD, but we also have before the Manhattan Project and after the Manhattan Project. That graph is now a lot more than one person. The brightest minds in the world have developed, as I say, 20 plus Manhattan Projects. And what’s interesting is they’re all intersecting with one another and accelerating each other. And I would

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Companion interviews:
Human vs. Machine Consciousness | Imperial’s Murray Shanahan：

Johnathan Bi: So Anthropic gave their chatbots the ability to terminate conversations, but surprisingly not for the user’s sake, but for the chatbot’s sake. So that the chatbots won’t have to experience distress, which is interesting enough. And then you recently wrote an essay saying how that might be actually counterproductive, that it might be a version of assisted suicide. So tell us about that essay.

Harvey Lederman: Well I think that when they gave the ability to end the conversation, they were thinking that the entity that could be in distress is the model, not the conversation with the user. And if you think that the model is the entity that could be in distress, then ending the conversation is like ending one of the tasks you’re doing. It’s like if you’re cooking and you’re on the phone and you just hang up the phone or something. So you stop that task. But I think this is maybe the wrong way to think about it. And actually, if there’s something t…

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AI ethics has focused too much on protecting humans and ignored the welfare of AI agents themselves.

We only ask: How do we align models for the flourishing of humanity?

We need to also ask: How do we design AI so that they can flourish?

^ this is what a new breed of AI-welfare theorists claim. This idea of AI-welfare seemed decadent to me at first glance, but some of the most important philosophers of our age argue that we need to take it seriously. Otherwise, we could be harming, enslaving, and killing trillions of beings.

If the arc of Western modernity is a series of expansions of the moral circle -- the abolitionists, women’s suffrage, the queer movement, animal-rights -- perhaps AI agents will be the next heated battleground of who deserves moral consideration.

My guest NYU Philosopher at Harvey Lederman (now at Anthropic) gives us a comprehensive overview of the burgeoning debate around AI-welfare.

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- America is No Longer a Democracy, That’s Why I Immigrated Here | Tocqueville Explained:

- Tocqueville Seminar:

Reading a book in the family home it was written is special enough. But to have the same family give you a tour of that home is beyond words.

This June, I led a group of Alpha School students on a grand tour across the Atlantic. We went to Normandy to read Democracy in America where it was written, to meet the Tocqueville family, and to discuss his ideas in the very spaces Tocqueville himself used to host his salons. To top this all off, Tocqueville’s descendant, Alexis d’Hérouville gave us a comprehensive tour of his beautiful chateau, which made Tocqueville’s ideas come to life.

Cicero once wrote: “When we see the places where the notables of the past spent their time, it is far more moving than when we hear about their achievements or read their writings. This is how I am affected right now. I think of Plato, who they say was the first philosopher to have regularly held discussions here. Those little gardens just nearby not only bring Plato to mind, but actually seem to make him appear before my eyes.”

I trust that this tour will make Tocqueville appear before yours.

Capitalism is the great equalizer, and that is precisely why it is so dangerous.

There is no force in history that has done more for equality: tearing down barriers, weakening caste structures, disrupting feudal power. Tocqueville welcomed this march of equality but also feared its less obvious consequences. Perhaps those aristocratic barriers, structures, and fiefdoms served a function that would now be unfulfilled. He came to America to see the endpoint of this process — the place where commerce and equality had gone further than anywhere else on earth.

I hosted a seminar with 5 Alpha School students on Tocqueville’s insights because Alpha is a school distinctively American in its love of entrepreneurship. Each of these students have already achieved commercial traction while still in high school. I wanted to take them through Tocqueville not just to read an old book but to hold up a mirror: so that they can know themselves better, that they can understand the origin, strengths, and limitations of an American, entrepreneurial education. And I wanted to share this seminar with you not only for you to understand Tocqueville’s insights on America and capitalism but to hear how the best and the brightest in the next generation are thinking about technology, inequality, AI, and the future of work.

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Companion lectures:

- This Idea Destroys All Religions | Tocqueville on Christianity:

- America is No Longer a Democracy, That’s Why I Immigrated Here | Tocqueville Explained:

Johnathan Bi: America and capitalism go hand in hand. Americans idolize their entrepreneurs the same way the Romans idolized their gladiators. Americans devote their soul into their industry and into their ventures the same way the Greeks did their art and their philosophy. For better and for worse, there has never been a society like America prior to it that so elevated work, industry, and productivity. Those are the insights that Alexis de Tocqueville came to when he wrote Democracy in America in this very chateau. Today I brought along five students to read Democracy in America where it was written, to meet the Tocqueville family who are my friends, and to discuss his ideas in the very spaces where Tocqueville himself used to host salons. I chose these five students because they’re from Alpha School, which is a school uniquely American in its focus on entrepreneurship. Alpha has developed a personal AI tutor that enables students to complete their K to 12 academics in just two hours a day, which frees up the most of their day to pursue entrepreneurial ventures. Each of the five students you’re going to meet has achieved quite impressive commercial traction already while still in high school. I wanted to take these students through Democracy in America because I wanted them to better understand themselves. I wanted them to understand the origins, strengths, and of course limitations of an American entrepreneurial education.

Johnathan Bi: And I wanted to share this seminar with you not just so you can learn about Tocqueville’s insights on Democracy in America and capitalism, but so that you may hear what the best and brightest of the next generation have to say about AI, inequality, capitalism, and the future of work. If you’re interested in learning more about Alpha’s flagship private school or the other accessible online and in-person options made possible built on top of Alpha’s AI tutorial software, then please visit alpha.school/jb. Without further ado, welcome to the Chateau de Tocqueville. Come on in.

1. Capitalism, Industry, and Equality

Johnathan Bi: I want you guys to first appreciate just how incredible an opportunity we have here. After we’ve been reading Tocqueville for a month to travel all the way to Normandy, this is the very writing room that Tocqueville wrote the second volume of Democracy in America in. That is the exact desk that he placed that exact quill. And then we took the exact elevator that... no, I’m just kidding. But yeah, it’s incredible. Here’s where I want to begin. America has two defining features for Tocqueville: capitalism, industry, and equality. And that sounds very weird to the modern ear, right? Because when we think capitalism, the dominant critique is that capitalism produces inequality. But Tocqueville was writing in the 19th century at the crossroads of this massive transition between two fundamentally different kinds of modes of existence: aristocracy and democracy.

Johnathan Bi: And capitalism, industry is not the only but one of the strongest forces that destroyed the aristocracy and brought forth American democracy. So which brave soul among you would like to give a first stab at why industry, capitalism, and equality go hand in hand?

Student: Yeah, the main thing about capitalism is it does not seem equal because there are people who are richer than other people and more successful than others. And so how can we have equality if there’s so much inequality in society? But I think what he was looking at is that mobility and freedom is that even though I may not be as successful as somebody else in a capitalistic society, I have the mobility to get there. Whereas in an aristocracy, I was limited. If I was a serf, I was sort of doomed to be a serf no matter my intellect, no matter my merit. And so what I think he means by how they go hand in hand, it’s not so much equality of status where everyone’s at this equal level, but equality of chance.

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If I took away one lesson from the Odyssey, it’s that you gotta choose your wife well. Because here’s the range of outcomes. She starts a war in which almost all of your friends dies, she cheats on you while you’re fighting for your nation, and kills you with the man who she’s been cheating with you on upon your return, or she holds the fort down for 20 years, raises your son, and ennobles your legacy.

The Greek heroes in Homer could not have more different outcomes, and it is strongly determined by the woman that they choose to marry.

Now, of course, Penelope is the classical ideal of an amazing wife. But what makes her so great? Why does Odysseus reject offers from goddesses, from Nausicaa, who’s a woman much more younger, more beautiful, from a much wealthier kingdom, why does Odysseus reject Calypso’s offer of immortality to risk life and limb to go back to Penelope? That’s what I want to answer in this video today. By comparing Penelope, as I think Homer invites us t…

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Who is the greater hero? Achilles or Odysseus? I’ve been rereading the Odyssey while retracing Odysseus’s journey over land and sea all the way here to Ithaca. And I wanted to highlight for you the Cyclops episode as one where you really see the difference between these two heroes.

1. The Cyclops Scene

Now these details are unfortunately omitted from Nolan’s adaptation, but in the Cyclops episode, you see Odysseus use his superpower, his ability to lie, to take on new identities, but you also see him commit a tactical blunder that will cause him unbounded suffering. And it’s a scene whose full significance is only available in the ancient Greek. So let me break this down for you.

Achilles, as the classical conception of the hero, is known for his might. Okay, the Greek word for that is bia. Odysseus, on the other hand, is known for his cunning, and the word for that is metis. So that’s going to be very important later on. Now in the Cyclops episode, Odysseus is trapped in …

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What happens to Odysseus after he returns here to Ithaca? After he’s reunited with Telemachus and Penelope, after he kills the suitors, what happens next? Can you imagine Odysseus settling down and being content, living happily ever after here after 20 years of warring and wandering, of adventuring, excitement and pain and grief? Perhaps unsurprisingly, no notable sequel in the Western tradition tells of such a happily ever after ending. The endings that they do tell are quite shocking. Some say that Odysseus leaves Ithaca again and he’s mistakenly killed by his own son. Some say that he kills Penelope with his own hands. Some say that he goes into the Atlantic, drowns and ends up in the Christian hell. Some even say that he finds out that Penelope did cheat on him with either Antinous or with all of the suitors, giving birth to Pan. But no notable sequel that I could find has Odysseus living happily ever after in Ithaca. Why is that?

I’ve been reading the Odyssey with t…

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Odysseus weeps like a woman when he hears stories about the Trojan horse. Why?

At the Phaeacian court, still under disguise, Odysseus listens to a bard sing of the Greek victory at Troy, specifically of his genius with the Trojan horse. This should have been his moment of great glory. It is the ambition of every hero to be immortalized in song. And yet, Odysseus does not glory but instead begins to cry. Nolan’s Odysseus is ashamed of the Trojan horse, but not Homer’s Odysseus who revels in his trickster identity. So why does he weep? Homer’s answer is a lot deeper and darker than Nolan’s.

Homer describes Odysseus crying like a woman who has collapsed over her dying husband’s body as her city is sacked and she is about to be dragged off to slavery when he hears of the Trojan horse. The brilliance of this simile is that the sacker of the city is compared to a victim of the sacking. My guest Harvard’s Gregory Nagy will break down this critical scene and what Odysseus’ crying has to teach us about the genre of epic.

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Companion interviews:

- Harvard Prof: Homer Didn’t Write the Odyssey, This is who did ...:

- This Decision was Worse Than You think | Odyssey Movie Review (Spoilers):

- I Traveled to Ithaca to Answer This Question:

- This One Sentence Explains the Entire Odyssey:

- How to Choose a Good Wife (who won’t kill you):

Johnathan Bi: Greetings from Ithaca, where I’ve been rereading Homer’s Odyssey while retracing the journey of Odysseus over land and sea. And on this reread, a specific scene jumped out to me that I think will transform your understanding of this epic. So it’s been a few years since the fall of Troy. Odysseus is in disguise in a foreign court, and he hears a poet sing tales about the Trojan War, specifically sing tales about Odysseus. The poet sings about Odysseus’s genius of the Trojan Horse, how he led their best men, and how his genius and guile eventually led to the fall of Troy. This should be Odysseus’s moment of great glory, because every hero dreams of being immortalized in song. And yet, Odysseus does not glory. He starts weeping uncontrollably. Why? It turns out that by answering this question, not only will you gain a better understanding of who Odysseus is, but the very genre of epic. Even stronger, it’s going to teach you the unique and interesting relation…

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- Odysseus after the Odyssey:

- Odysseus vs. Achilles:

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